Interview with Enrique Martínez Lozano: "Look for what we are and have always been"
Psychotherapist, sociologist and theologian, and his words have the gift of awakening our inner resonances of genuine spirituality, that "internal master" which is the only one that we should follow. Interview Juan Ortiz.
Enrique Mártinez Lozano was born in Guadalaviar, Teruel, in 1950.Animador of meetings and retreats, lecturer and author of several books (see your website at the end of the text), it knows to articulate psychology and spirituality in a simple way at the same time that deep and effective, promoting the growth of the human being. Use meditation as a profound experience for experiencing unity and overcome all separateness and duality.
Can you speak about your life and spiritual experience?
Life has given me two attitudes in the background who have accompanied me even as a child. I am referring to the search for truth and to the confidence in the background of the real. "Almost by way of anecdote, I would say that there is a question that always has made me this:"And if things were not as they have told them to me, and as always I have seen them?".
Sometimes it cost me "see", also because the indecisiveness is another feature of my character. But when I have seen clearly, I realized, even very surprised that no one or anything I could stop (while I lived much insecurity in the eyes of others). And, on the other hand, confidence, a sense of background that, even in the midst of the most puzzling, I was making: "trust. All is well". It was not of the mind - which saw many things wrong and was suffering - but knew to true.
There has outlined my experience vital and spiritual, not as two things separated, but unified at all times. Always has been given me also a special "sense of smell" to detect the falsehood of all dualism.
Would you explain what is meditation who asks?
I think it is important to stress that meditation is not a method, an activity, or a series of practices, although it is important to persevere in the practices meditative.
Meditation is a way of life, a way of being. Because it is nothing less than a State of consciousness. Just as there is a State which is sleep and another which is the vigil (thought), meditation)dhyana(, Sanskrit) is another State of beingcharacterized by the experience of non-duality and - goes hand in hand - the experience of the present moment.
Meditation is not a practice; It is to live in the State of presence, perceiving that nothing separate from anything, there is and that our true identity is not self - as we believe in the State of thinking - but that same presence, unlimited and eternal.
And as it would simply explain so that everyone can understand it, what is spirituality?
Scientists often say that, when a formula or an equation is elegant, there are many guarantees that it is true. All this is very elegant, because everything converges: spirituality is not anything other than the experience - and help to live - that State of presence.
Spirituality is the profound dimension of the real. So understood, it is clear that there is nothing that is apart from spirituality.
With spirituality we have had two problems: 1) that religions have tended to adapt it, and thereby have distorted it; and (2) existing in the West, especially from the modernity - culture greatly, as reaction to the absolutism of the religions-, it has forgotten, producing a very serious human impoverishment, the "flat world", which repeatedly speaks of Ken Wilber.
To put it briefly: everything that exists has a dimension of depth, beyond the material appearance. That is "spiritual", and there it is for those who know see. In fact, matter and spirit, energy and consciousness, non-sinus the two faces of the only reality, in a embrace non-dual.
How does religion, religiosity, and different religions in these times?
As Javier Melloni, a man wise and true master spiritual, in the best sense of the word "We could say that religions are the cups; spirituality, wine; beliefs, denominations of origin of each wine, and the mystique is to drink this wine until drunk”.
How so I now see? It seems undeniable that we are witnessing a decline in institutional, as well as religion to a boom of the spiritual quest. Institutional religion has fallen, throughout history, in a serious and harmful error: has tended to absolutizarse. I like to refer to the absolute, she herself had believed in possession of it and the truth. This is dangerous, because it is false; It has done much damage and causes one growing rejection. The only religion is good when living decidedly to the service, not of herself or of the institution or his beliefs, but person and spirituality.
On the other hand, the human being does not support too empty, because his desire is fullness. The sum of these two factors explain, in my view, the growing spiritual quest. You know or not, we can not look. What we are looking for? It sounds paradoxical, but it is so: We are looking for what we are and have always been. This explains, ultimately, will not let do it ever.
You are Christian theologian and psychologist. How meet these two facets? What can we contribute?
I don't know if theology provides much... Apart from scholarship. Yes, it is always good to know what you have thought or written so many people that have gone before us. But I have great faith in theology, equal does not have it in mind, when we talk about the absolute. The mind - and conceptual discourse - is a beautiful and effective tool in the world of objects, but is absolutely incapable of referring to it is not objectifiable. And that leads to a dangerous trap: the brain reduces the mystery to an object; Theology reduced the truth to a belief, and God to an idol.
What if I think relevant is the convergence of psychology with spirituality. I think they are two Rails that we need to explore simultaneously: because the spirituality without the psychology is lame, and psychology without spirituality remains blind. In fact - and this what I have checked frequently - oblivion of one of these two Rails makes that person derails easily.
From their point of view, how can humans cope with crises? What can help us to understand and overcome them?
It seems to me that, input, the crisis can be settled better if we understand it as opportunity. Because it is so: the crisis always refers to growth. It is true that it is also a crossroads, and we can err in it. That is the risk, but it does not deny that it is still chance.
That said, would have to view every crisis in particular. But, in any case, it seems to me important to have three things: a keys to understanding What we are living, a attitudes Basic to allow resolve it constructively, and some Tools concrete as effective means.
With regard to attitudes, I would like to highlight four: the no-evitacion of the crisis (or acceptance of what we're living), the no-reduccion to what happens (always are more than everything that may happen to us), care always ahead when present (without leaving that the mind is lost in the rumination or the victimhood), and love of oneself (to be able to welcome us as we are (: this is "have compassion for them", particularly necessary when it becomes present pain).
Among the tools, highlight the psychological help, sharing with someone in confidence, as well as some specific, both psychological and spiritual (or meditation) practice.
I know from my own experience traveling to different places through workshops, conferences, retreats... would live this share and as people who attend their work respond?
Living with much gusto, as an offer of what it gives me see and live. And perceive in people two things that always surprise me: huge interest (which is not but expression of longing that us is, we know it or not) and "resonances" or "echoes" that occur in them. As if you woke up to what was already, even though it was asleep; or as if they put a name to what had always sensed... This is extremely gratifying, because we find ourselves in the same reality. I feel that I am the "pretext" that the "internal master", can wake up alone that must follow.
What are we? Do those who are we really? Was it where we walk in our human evolution?
This is the "final" question, the "only question" that is really worth. The response to it will depend on our bondage or our deliverance, our misfortune or our joy.
In our cultural medium, the most common answer is that considers the human being as a structure psychophysics, whereas the "I" as our final identity. It is a response that comes from the mind. But since the mind sees only "objects", what it does is convert the person into an object in perception absolutely reducing. On the other hand, it is inevitable: a part of who we are - the mind - how to know who we are in depth?
That reducing response is the source of all our suffering, because we identify with a transient, impermanent reality and ultimately empty, because what we call "I" is only a mental fiction.
What are we? A careful and thorough inquiry makes us realize that we are not anything that we can observe (body, sensations, feelings, emotions, thoughts, circumstances...), because all are not but objects within the field of our consciousness. But What we are It is not any object or content of consciousness. We are the subject that sees, That look at that and that can not be observed. For this reason, we only know that we are where we are. Is not, therefore, conceptual knowledge - which only serves for the world of objects--but of a knowledge by identity: I know who I am just because I'm him.
And That We are has thousand names, all metaphorical, who want to join our ineffable reality: original vacuum, overflowing fullness, bare consciousness, pure attention, unlimited presence, stillness, joy, love...
Where are we heading? To nowhere. There is no way there is no distance. What we are is already here and now. An old zen saying reminds us: "If you have less desire to be better than you now are, if you take thought for raiment, it only minimally, in search of something, you are already going against the unborn". If we were to search for or achieve something, that would be a signal that we're not; We would have fallen into the trap of ego and dualism. But everything is now.
"A medieval Christian Mystic wrote:"If you are not looking for it, you will find it”. We are convinced that the non-dual fullness is absent (outside and in the future). But the reality is that this plenitude is all that exists and there is no place where it is not. There is no way any closer; or move away either. The self (or I am) - the last of all that exists and that is also our very identity - not is a reality that is difficult to reach, but, rather, a State from which it is impossible to escape.
Anything we lack, there is someone who has to go somewhere. There is a place where to go. If we are not moving, we have already reached.
Do we need? One thing: recognize it, realize or - as all the traditions of wisdom - exit of the dream of our mind (ego) and Awakening.
Something you want to share with the readers of this interview...
Apart from I express my gratitude for this opportunity to share what I see and I live, I'd like to encourage you to make all your activity reflects the beautiful unit precisely evoking the word"Yoga", to help awaken from the dream of dualism and promote the recognition that all, without exception, is embraced in the radiant, beautiful and full non-duality. Thanks a lot.