Interview with Javier Gómez: "Thus was Krishnamurti"
Of Galician origin, Javier Gómez met as a teenager to a man who would change her life: Krishnamurti. "To Krishnamurti should read it with some critical thinking, in the sense to see what's going, what they are saying and whether it fits or does not fit". Interview Roberto Carlos Miras.
Javier Gómez He has been member of the Foundation Krishamurti Latin American, former teacher at Brockwood Park School (created in 1969 in England by Krishnamurti International University) and translator. It lies between the Netherlands, London and Spain... He has translated What are you doing with your life)Amber Ocean) or Dialogues with Krishnamurti (Edaf), among other books. And that has been a good reason to talk to him.
Scholar of his work how, do you think that Krishnamurti was too protected?
Yes! In a sense, Yes. We need to understand several dimensions of that protection and I do not understand them all. It was protected by the theosophists, that they were its protectors and their guardians, and - it seems - it was also protected by other entities strange, esoteric, so to speak. He would sometimes say: "religion has this theory: when one reaches a certain level of virtue, say, they assigned one or two guards". And why there if so? He felt protected, and not only physically, by others as the theosophists, and in addition, inwardly by a huge security that came from that perception of the other, of truth.
He left the order of the star, dissolved it to not create a new Church. It broke at that time yet?
Not refuted, in the end, the reality of the masters. He never said that they did not exist. He said that they were irrelevant, which is very different. He, for example, said that a day had seen the Buddha and told how he began to talk to him. He said: "I'm going to see if it is real, I'm going to see if it is really" grab it, he crossed it and thought: is a mirage. Did not return to the Buddha. Since then he continued receiving perceptions.
You are editor and translator, what has given you Krishanamurti?
It gave rise to enter myself in unexpected ways, my relationship with his teachings, a dialogue in which open windows on my own inside - meaning or no meaning - of my own existence.
What spoken Krishnamurti?
So many things! Speaking of the individual, society, nature, human relationship. What is our human relationship?, what is our responsibility? Mess with the structure of human consciousness, with his psychology, then venture into what we would call another dimension, or something strictly religious.
You've mentioned that you saw to Krishnamurti as a Buddha for the 21st century.
It is personal. There is a great similarity. What they said is virtually identical and its emphasis on meditation is almost the same. What does Buddhism say? Talks about the famous four noble truths of Buddha. There is suffering and that suffering has a cause; Therefore, if you have a cause, there is an end of that suffering, and at the end of this suffering will come across these eight steps that may occur. But the central step is meditation.
Where emphasis Krishnamurti?
In meditation. All that talking is meditation. His teachings are a meditation from the silence, watching the entire dynamic of human consciousness, how it deceives itself and from that ignorance, how will their own suffering. That is pure Buddhism.
We are in a prison of feelings, fears, anguish - we need them to go see along the way-in life itself. You must not think of a means to an end but act immediately. Our mistake is to think that meditation is a means. First you have to have a means to an end, the order. Meditation and order are the same.
Why Krishnamurti in his talks began talking about the conflict...
And about how to end. Only in the freedom of full security that gives the affair--say--, affectionate, intelligent, can flourish that inner peace of which he spoke. Human integrity is precisely where there is no conflict and that is our first responsibility. All that is order.
There is no difference between meditation and create that order. Put the House in order is meditation also. Be aware of where there is disorder, where is that disorder. And that understanding of the disorder is allowing you to create an order; If there is that, there is no order.
Krishnamurti sometimes speaks of the method and does not recommend it...
That is perhaps a misunderstanding! He says that there is no method, but in where? There is a method of yoga and a methodical body care. He was extremely methodical in that. Towards asanas of yoga so that the body would be in tip-top shape and healthy, also to pranayama to oxygenate the body and give the most energy.
Question of power?
When he spoke of yoga, which he defined as skill in action, I was learning to be accurate in everything. In their actions, in your way of eating, in the way they behave, at all... And that I try to communicate it as a part of education. Precision in action. Perceiving things such as.
Turning back, Javier, who was Krishnamurti?
As I said before, Krishnamurti was Radja Yoga, in the sense that what is taught is the non-duality, the unitary principle of being. Its integrity with himself and with the beyond. It was a great Yogi.
Who is credited with "the observer and the observed", to David Bohm or Krishnamurti?
Krishnamurti, already used it not with respect to science, with respect to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. It was a point of union between the physics of Western and Eastern religious philosophy, say. We try to not observe through a concept that we have already acquired, because that really prevents that we can see it, because that same concept transforms what is seeing, distorts it.
According to traditional Catholic moral structure, we have a series of virtues and sins, especially sins. Assuming of course that there is a conviction, then instead of understand, we condemn, and therefore never see. If I identify with lust, I'm going to be lustful, but what does it mean really lust or pride?, what will it be? Krishnamurti gets there, is not in the plane of the observer.
What do you mean?
He does not criticize everything from a preconception of a bias, does not to prejudge what supposedly is right. Observed but without prejudging.
Krishnamurti said that it was not any master. How you have lived your that? Very well! There were people who resisted because they wanted that Krishnamurti was his authority. When we want a teacher or an authority we are contradicting ourselves. We are telling them to tell us what we need to do, but ultimately we do not want it to do. Therefore, it is contradictory to find an authority in the field of spirituality.
Who is Krishnamurti
He used to say: "is not requested or required any belief, there are no followers, no worship, no nor any kind of persuasion, in any sense, because only in this way can be used in the same State." We then see together the extraordinary phenomenon that is human existence".
He was born in 1895 in the bosom of a modest home in Brahman, in Madapalle, India. His teachings more than 20 million words, which were published in 120 videos, 75 cassettes and more than 75 books. He said that the man has to release fear, conditioning, authority and dogma through knowledge. At age 90, on February 18, 1986, he died in California.
To find out more...
Krishnamurti. Biography of Pupul Jayakar (Editorial AlfaOmega)
Journal, I, II; Krishnamurti
Krisnamurti, total freedom (Editorial Kairos)
Krishnamurti: 100 years of wisdom. (Editorial Kairos)
Roberto Carlos Miras He is a collaborator in various media.